Hi, which media is in the filters, and in which condition are they?
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Help Hard time getting rid of gda, diatoms
- Thread starter Jarno
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- Thread starter
- #22
Oase has standard oase filters in it and 1 basket of bio material.
This one is for debri filtering
The tetra has bioballs and 1 baskets of bio material. And 2 baskets of filters for more bio filtering
They both get maintenance often
The tank could use some more plant mass.
If you are have no other source for N (no livestock for example), and your soil is relatively depleted, and your tank aims to be fully planted, APTe will likely be more suitable than APT3. If you add livestock, or enrich soil, then staying with APT3 will work.
For diatoms - accelerating tank maturity helps a lot, introducing mulm/media from matured aquariums will help.
If the diatom issues are slight, I wouldn't do anything drastic. Just vaccum them off during water changes and let the tank grow in.
The tipping point can take weeks to reach for some tanks.
An example from a tank I had. No algicide usage - just siphoning, and replanting new growth. The maturity point only came after 3-4 weeks.
I think your plants are in better shape than this example.
As in buy some more plants or let these grow out more? (Used up my emersed stock)
I am just farming out these plants to add hardscape later. Would APTe still be appropriate for a tank with medium plant density versus a dutch style?
The filter on this tank has been running for 10 months continuously. It was seeded with commercial bacteria as I don't have other tanks (yet...).
I would assume "tank maturity" from a microbial standpoint is not just a factor of letting your filter run long enough to build beneficial bacteria? What factors are we working towards in tank maturity?
The diatoms I'm dealing with cover the surface of the leaves rather than stringy-like algae shown in your example tanks. My algae won't come off by siphoning, I have to rub the algae off with my fingers or a brush.
I think I was under the impression that I needed to keep the tank as spotless as possible the first few weeks in order to give the plants the ability to gain the advantage. It's been pretty exhausting to rub algae off an prune nightly.
I'm also not sure if doing daily water changes is necessary when using used aquasoil. However, this round of planting with an in-line diffuser and APT fertilizer has gone so much better than my past several attempts with DIY reactor and fertz.
I think you can get just let stuff grow out more.
APTe is fine for medium plant density tank that has no other N imputs.
Aquarium microbial balance is complicated. Well run planted ecosystem tends towards what we can only generally call a "positive" microbial balance - this usually means a few things:
Clear water, no odours, organic waste is easily decomposed, less algae, less negative type of algae such as BGA, less decomposer microbes activity means less plant melt in delicate species.
Aquariums with poor microbial balance tends to show the opposite problems:
cloudy water, smells, more prevalence of algae and issues with fish/plant health, more melting/deteriorating of delicate species/TC.
Actually quantifying what is happening in each case is hugely complex. Its lab work and not something even expensive test kits can see. Sudipta shaw did a bit of lab work on his aquarium (when he had access to commercial lab resources) to identify the different microbial types and how his tank microbial composition changed over time. In his experiment, microbial diversity dropped when there was problems, and algae spiked along side the drop in microbial diversity.
Things that we infer that moves the tank towards positive microbial balance - good oxygen levels, healthy substrate zones (not compacted or choked with organic waste), functioning filters (not choked with organic waste again), good flow/turnover in the aquarium, healthy plant growth.
There can be weird outliers to this issue as well. Due to the unique composition/mix of individual tank's substrate/water, what microbes are already present, some tanks seem to develop issues that are much harder to resolve compared to other folks. Generally, the factors that move the tank towards positive microbial balance still seem to work.
Its rare to see aquariums where there is high plant mass 80%+ planted, and healthy growing plants, have persistent microbial/algae issues. So it seems that growing out the plants works well to stabilize the majority of tanks out there.
For diatoms specifically, perhaps you can try having some shrimps or Otos
Wanted to circle back to some of these questions with more specifics.
If I trim tops and replant my rotala & pearlweed, I'll be getting rid of a very large portion of my current plant mass. Is it more important to keep the plant mass going for a while before replanting, or to get rid of the older algae-covered growth as soon as possible?
Also, should I remove the leaves on the lower part of the stem when replanting as shown in the photo below? Only the top 1-1.5" is clean despite 2 weeks of growth.
Side Note: I want to get some otocinclus as recommended, but I live in an area that's difficult to get fish so it may be a few weeks.
If I trim tops and replant my rotala & pearlweed, I'll be getting rid of a very large portion of my current plant mass. Is it more important to keep the plant mass going for a while before replanting, or to get rid of the older algae-covered growth as soon as possible?
Also, should I remove the leaves on the lower part of the stem when replanting as shown in the photo below? Only the top 1-1.5" is clean despite 2 weeks of growth.
Side Note: I want to get some otocinclus as recommended, but I live in an area that's difficult to get fish so it may be a few weeks.
Algae-covered plants aren't happy, so I'd recommend getting rid of them asap and replanting the tops. That section you're replanting looks great. Not many people remove the bottom leaves so meticulously, but I find that it really helps prevent too much DOC from melting bottom leaves.
You are doing the right thing. The bottom that have algae are just not adapted to your tank parameter (or whatever change you made - the rotala is quite fast going and what you have is about 1-2 weeks growth in a low nitrate setup - so if you made changes in that time frame the plant will adapt and the unadapted lower ones will start getting algae) so best to get ride of them. Of note if you are trying to make your Rotala BR bushy, trimming them when they are at the height of your plants and replanting them to make the bush denser helps. They take overcrowding well.
The problem I've been having (and why I originally posted on this thread) is that I follow the steps to discard any old growth through pruning and/or trim & replant. However, any new growth more than a few days old seems to develop some algae.
Is that normal for a newer tank?
Or, Will it take a few cycles of trimming and replanting for everything to stay algae free?
The way I'm currently thinking about it is that any new growth should have adapted if parameters were stable, so any new growth should remain algae free. And, if any algae develops that means parameters weren't stable. But, I can also see how it may take a few cycles of replanting to stick.
As I mentioned before, I suspected a lot of my algae issues came from DIY fertz and DIY reactor in my previous attempts to plant this tank. But, I still seem to be experiencing this to some degree of algae covering fairly fresh growth even with off the shelf fertz and diffuser. I’m holding parameters pretty stable as far as I can tell.
My hydrocotyle tripartita seems to be getting less algae after I discarded old growth and only replanted new growth. I'll be interested to see what happens when I do this with the rotala and pearlweed this time around.
Is that normal for a newer tank?
Or, Will it take a few cycles of trimming and replanting for everything to stay algae free?
The way I'm currently thinking about it is that any new growth should have adapted if parameters were stable, so any new growth should remain algae free. And, if any algae develops that means parameters weren't stable. But, I can also see how it may take a few cycles of replanting to stick.
As I mentioned before, I suspected a lot of my algae issues came from DIY fertz and DIY reactor in my previous attempts to plant this tank. But, I still seem to be experiencing this to some degree of algae covering fairly fresh growth even with off the shelf fertz and diffuser. I’m holding parameters pretty stable as far as I can tell.
My hydrocotyle tripartita seems to be getting less algae after I discarded old growth and only replanted new growth. I'll be interested to see what happens when I do this with the rotala and pearlweed this time around.
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if new growth looks good for some time and then develops algae, it means that your system is not stable. How frequently are you doing water changes now that you are past your first week. What is the ammonia/nitrate level and PAR level at substrate? If you are confident that the co2 and nitrate levels are stable then i might recommend more water changes to help you reach some stability. Plants like pearl weed and H.tripartita might be good to let them grow out and reach significant mass which can help reach stability. Once you are stable you can replace them.
I've been doing at least 50% water changes daily for the first two weeks, some 80%-100% over the weekends when I have more time. Nitrates are usually around 3-5ppm, and my PAR is about 95 at the substarate. I'm pretty confident that my CO2 levels are stable because my diffuser is new, the drop checker is consistently the same color each day and I check it periodically with the Hanna CO2 kit.
As a quick overall update - did two big water changes this weekend, trimmed and replanted my rotala and pearlweed. It seems I'm having the most difficulty with my H.tripartita, and I think it might be because there's so much open soil around it. The algae is pretty mild but still annoying (see image, sorry I don't have a macro lens). Everything else seems to be doing fairly well, and generally trending in the direction of less algae.
I've noticed that on the far right front side of the aquarium, a new patch of algae develops on the soil every day even when I turkey baste it daily (see final photo). Seems to be in a fairly high flow area... Can someone look at my lily pipe config and tell me if that might be contributing to my algage issues? Both inlet and outlet are mounted next to each other on front left of tank.
Also shout out to Dennis on this article! Didn't see this article until a day or two ago, really enjoyed it.
If things are getting better, i might just wait it out for the plants to fill in. The Blood red seems to be doing well. 95 par might be on the higher side but if things are getting better it might be best to not rock the boat and wait it out.
The H.Tripartita will take over sooner or later, it can be a difficult to control plant; you can see its growth in my prior beginner journal.
Your lily pipe positioning looks good to me. It is typically recommended to keep your bubble counter on the same side of the lily pipe so that co2 does not directly blast on it.
The H.Tripartita will take over sooner or later, it can be a difficult to control plant; you can see its growth in my prior beginner journal.
Your lily pipe positioning looks good to me. It is typically recommended to keep your bubble counter on the same side of the lily pipe so that co2 does not directly blast on it.
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A quick update on this tank about a month after last post.
Generally things have gone better, but I'm still frustrated. The plants are growing a lot and I've been through periods where there's very little algae. However, if nutrient levels creep up to 5ppm NO3 or so then ~20% of leaves start to get covered in brown algae. I prune very regularly and have been through a few cycles of full leaf change-over and or re-topping for stems.
As far as I'm aware, I've kept parameters pretty darn stable with NO3 hovering between 2-5ppm. I've been doing 70% water changes 2x per week for over a month. CO2 seems quite stable as far as I can tell.
I thought I was finally in the clear with commercial CO2 injection and fertz, but it seems something still isn't quite right. I've measured my nutrient uptake over a week a few times via NO3 testing and it's less than 0.5ppm per day NO3.
I'm at a loss as to what could be wrong and am pretty discouraged. I know this is a challenging hobby, but I'm pretty attentive to detail and just don't think it should be THIS difficult. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Below is a refresher on tank parameters.
Tank: ADA60P (Tank started with dark start method ~11 months ago)
Light: Twinstar S | 95 PAR @ Substrate for 6 hours/day
CO2: UNS In-line Diffuser | 35-40ppm (Tested Hanna CO2 Test Kit) | On 2.5hrs prior to lights, off 30 mins before lights off
Filter: Oase 350 with 30ppi Sponge Only
Soil: Amazonia II Aquasoil (almost 12 months old, no root tabs used but also hasn't ever seen a heavy plant load)
Fertz: APT 3 —> NO3 kept at 2-5ppm as proxy for overall nutrient levels. Usually about 0.5 ml/day average. Replenishing dose added post WC to make NO3 2ppm
Water: RODI remineralized with 30ppm Ca and 6ppm Mg.
50% water changes daily for first week
Plants: Rotala blood red, Rotala H'ra, Rotala Wallichii, crypto wendtii, hydrocotyle tripartita, pearlweed, javafern, hygrophila pinnatifida, monte carlo, AR Mini
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Interesting, that your nitrate is getting to 5 ppm with just 0.5 ml of apt 3. Mine is a slightly bigger tank than yours and I dose 2 ml of apt3 with barely any nitrates measurable. Your blood red color seems really good so I would assume that your nitrates are pretty low.
Couple of things to try out
- it would be beneficial to do more plant mass. Your blood reds can be basically doubled or tripled in density if you are going for the Dennis Wong style bush. Maybe plant 2 or 3 more bushes with the HRA and pearl weed.
- how do you check nitrates? I would suggest using the salifert nitrate kit. If you are consistently measuring <1 which Is what I would expect you to measure - yours would be a zero bound system based on my understanding of 2hr aquarist method and would not updose with water change.
- do you get lot of direct sunlight ?
- 90 par might not be necessary and you could aim for 50 par and all your listed plants will still grow really well (don’t know about Wallichi though since I don’t have experience with it). 50 par is more than enough to get bright red with rotala br with nitrate limitation and a orangish greenish red with HRA.
Couple of things to try out
- it would be beneficial to do more plant mass. Your blood reds can be basically doubled or tripled in density if you are going for the Dennis Wong style bush. Maybe plant 2 or 3 more bushes with the HRA and pearl weed.
- how do you check nitrates? I would suggest using the salifert nitrate kit. If you are consistently measuring <1 which Is what I would expect you to measure - yours would be a zero bound system based on my understanding of 2hr aquarist method and would not updose with water change.
- do you get lot of direct sunlight ?
- 90 par might not be necessary and you could aim for 50 par and all your listed plants will still grow really well (don’t know about Wallichi though since I don’t have experience with it). 50 par is more than enough to get bright red with rotala br with nitrate limitation and a orangish greenish red with HRA.
Plant Mass --> The plants have grown out quite a lot so I'm surprised that this is still considered a low plant mass tank. Between needing to prune and replanting stems to discard algae portion, it's a bit difficult to keep it much denser than it already is but I will try.
Nitrate Check --> I use an API kit (and follow instructions carefully with all the shaking and such). Probably not a bad idea for me to check it against known concentrations again. I'm considering just getting a Hanna Checker and following @Naturescapes_Rocco's usage guide for that.
Sunlight --> The tank doesn't get any direct sun.
Par Levels --> I'd kept it higher to try to grow out plant mass a little more quickly to stabilize the system and generally to get more experience with par levels above 50. When I'd grown my rotala blood red under 50 par before they were not particularly red but I don't think my nitrates were very low either. I'm willing to try going back down to 50 par, but know that the plants will need to re-adapt.
My wedding is in less than a month so I'm trying to get this system somehwat stabilized so it's not a wreck with me being gone for a week.
I would say that you have good number of plants but just would need to be denser. This is a pic of my tank I would say in peak condition (in winter with not much sunlight and still strong aquasoil) with relatively good plant mass (rotala blood red in the back with Rotala HRA in the front of it). This is with nitrates <1-2. Now experiencing constant algae issues in summer with lot of direct sunlight and weakening aquasoil.
A month feels long but it isn't that long with regards to tank maturation process. Could a tank with slightly less mass and more tank unique variables (such as microbial mix) take twice as long? its within reasonable outcomes I think. The tank can still gain quite a bit of plant mass
the below took around a month
How do you control algae without algicides?
How do you control algae naturally in a planted aquarium? An aquarium with a dominant amount of fresh, robust, algae resistant leaves is the best protection against algae issues. Plant husbandry makes a greater impact on algae than parameters and many algae issues can be solved without the usage...
www.2hraquarist.com
Big fan, I got my half price on eBay, or they usually go on sale close to half price around Black Friday 
I used the dilution method instead of the spreadsheet, I find it super easy and it keeps spreadsheets out of my life
I've also been getting a better handle on nutrient stability. Going over to the Hanna High Range Marine Nitrate Colorimeter has been a really positive experience.
Pricey, but goes on sale often + generally half price used on eBay
The saltwater conversion is straightforward :
Nitrate Meter
Has anyone tried the Hanna nitrate meter in fresh water? I know it’s supposed to be for salt water only, but there are a few anecdotes out there that suggest the meter might work in fresh water. Here’s a quote from a review on Amazon for the high range tester. “I bought this not knowing it...
www.plantedtank.net
I drop the reagent into 17 ml of tank water, using one of these
Just for fun I run the two minute...
