Journal 20 gallon Rotala florida tank

[Dennis Wong]

Hey Dennis, what kinds of shrimp do you like to keep in your tanks and do you put any type of sponge on the intake to prevent them from getting sucked into the filter?

I know you posted somewhere that you don't like to keep Amano shrimp, but I can't find where. I've only ever had Amano shrimp, but have recently rehomed all 12 of them and want to try something new. They were huge and probably quite a large bioload.

I really like the red and white ones you have, but I don't anything about them.

I don't mind any of the dwarf shrimp but I usually only keep 1 color type of each species to prevent cross breeding. I usually also avoid keeping caridina shrimp (CRS) with neocardina shrimp (like cherry reds) as I find neos more competitive and i'm afraid CRS will fall behind in looking for food.

Neocaridinas are hardier and breed faster than CRS


CRS shrimp, but these are low grade lol. haven't been active culling the off colored ones


These are bloody mary shrimp, under neocaridina. These breed like cockroaches, they are hardy, live in very wide range of parameters, and can out breed predation if there is some plant cover.

 

[Koan]

really like the red and white ones you have, but I don't anything about them

The bicolor ones are Caridina rather than Neocaridina, are a little smaller, more shy and depending on the subspecies are famously sensitive to water conditions

But gorgeous and endlessly fascinating, especially if you're already using RO water

 

[TRyan]

Thank you @Koan!

 

[Koan]

You bet! I have a new breeding set of Orange Sakura Neocaridina coming in week after next.. can't wait!

If you're thinking about getting started, those guys are having a great 25% off sale for the next couple weeks

Here's a great primer on shrimp care!

The Shrimp School - Shrimply Explained

The most concise, organized, and fun resources to become a great shrimp keeper - all in one place. Peer-reviewed by shrimp.

www.shrimplyexplained.com

 

[TRyan]

@Koan This is just the info and links I needed. Thank you so much for your help!

 

[Fishstery]

The bicolor ones are Caridina rather than Neocaridina, are a little smaller, more shy and depending on the subspecies are famously sensitive to water conditions

But gorgeous and endlessly fascinating, especially if you're already using RO water

I've had a breeding colony of CRS crossed with PRL in my co2 injected tap water for many years/generations now

Accidentally creating a high TDS and co2 tolerant CRS line is one of my few real "flexes" in my hobby years the water has a gh of 7, kh of 4, TDS in the 300s. Co2 injection rate is lower, probably <20ppm but I don't even use a drop checker in the tank anymore since it's super mature and low effort.

 

[Koan]

Nice! You might consider offering them on Reddit!

There's a breeder in Portland that specializes in lines of (some) Caridina in Neocaridina water parameters.. her OERBT are on my list to try

@hamfist is our main shrimp guy here but I believe his breeding has been non-CO2

@Dennis Wong my apologies for the thread hijack!

 

[JacksonL]

Dennis, when you remove the older stems and replant the tops. Is there a particular method you use to add new aquasoil?
Is it as simple as vacuuming the area during and after the stem removal, adding a handful of fresh aquasoil and replanting the cut tops?
Would the same benefit be had from adding one of your root tabs under the soil before replanting?

 

[Dennis Wong]

Dennis, when you remove the older stems and replant the tops. Is there a particular method you use to add new aquasoil?
Is it as simple as vacuuming the area during and after the stem removal, adding a handful of fresh aquasoil and replanting the cut tops?
Would the same benefit be had from adding one of your root tabs under the soil before replanting?

Yes it is that simple. If you are more diligent, you can try to distribute/bury/mix the soil like folding dough. I think if you have ammonia rich aquasoil, it distributes better than root tabs, and is also cheaper in long run. I think root tabs are more useful for stuff that doesn't get uprooted long term, like lotus in a pond or other large plants in slow aquascapes, crypts maybe. In patches that are frequently uprooted, I think root tabs work less well as they can rise to the surface.

I have done the adding aquasoil method in the past, but occasionally mixed in root tabs also. For this particular tank, I've stay away from root tabs entirely and see what happens, and from what I see, this method works very well. It's also a very "clean" method so to say as the substrate is just pure aquasoil, so one can move stuff around easily, or even move the aquasoil around to form slopes as and when it is needed.

Having the same old substrate (1.5 years there about by now) over long term fully sees the benefits of long term maturity that many new setups struggle to achieve. The tank runs 200-250 umols of PAR from the substrate, with lights around 8.5-9 hours, yet algae is very very rare and usually isolated to a couple of wood pieces. I think the tank can grow perpetually well with this approach. Its like driving a ferrari that never breaks down so to say.

 

[CincyScaper]

Yes it is that simple.

Assuming you consider adding aquasoil based on growth or is it more based on time ? Also how much aquasoil do you add ? Thx

 

[GreggZ]

@Dennis Wong your recent posts remind me of something that I used to say all the time.

When people see a beautiful underwater garden and wonder why theirs doesn't look anything like that.........truth is that likely they are just working harder at it than you. You are a testament to that.

Great series of posts these past few months with loads of useful insight..........and inspiration!

Keep up the great work.

 

[Dennis Wong]

Assuming you consider adding aquasoil based on growth or is it more based on time ? Also how much aquasoil do you add ? Thx

Its a mix of both. Time-wise, I can only add when stuff is being up rooted. Blood vomit grows really fast in fresh aquasoil for example, I think they double in mass every 3 weeks or so. So if there is a patch I want to propagate or see plants that are not growing as great as before I will enrich the patch. On the opposite, I'll avoid enriching areas where I'd rather the plants grow more slowly (i.e. the patches of Elatine triandra).

@Dennis Wong your recent posts remind me of something that I used to say all the time.

When people see a beautiful underwater garden and wonder why theirs doesn't look anything like that.........truth is that likely they are just working harder at it than you. You are a testament to that.

Great series of posts these past few months with loads of useful insight..........and inspiration!

Keep up the great work.

Thanks man. I think hard work is one part, but where to apply that effort is even more important. I've been on forums/groups for years and I see folks chasing things that will not bring them any closer to having better aquariums. There are many small things that experience folks know and discount that the less experienced ppl are easily fooled by.

An example:
New hobbyist reads that nutrients are important for plant growth, and also that nutrients can cause algae. He starts a new tank, and immediately gets hit by diatoms and plant adaptation shock. Immediately spends time and money trying to "dial in his nutrients" to XXX accuracy, thinking that it will solve the issue. The thing that the tank actually lacked was tank maturity, and the ways to manage how a new tank settle in isn't particularly dependent on nutrient values per se. This hobbyist can chase the wrong direction for a long time and build up all sorts of weird pre-conceived notions about how to start a tank from this single experience.

Another common example that also took me a long time to observe and articulate:
Many folks suffer from poor growth due to unstable nutrient levels, not a lack of nutrients per se. In the many years I spend reading forum posts and replies, this is still very very rarely mentioned as a cause. Even till today, on this very forum, I see folks always recommend adding more nutrients when there is any sign of deteriorating growth. Its always more, not more stable, or other methods to improve plant growth such as removing old growth or compacted root zones. Among aquasoil tanks, enrichment and clearing old growth is still super rarely mentioned.

If anything, most of the aquarium hobby is still as nutrient centric (and not in the correct way) as years before. I think a lot of these issues also come from the limitation of hobbyist tools. If hobbyist can't measure nutrient levels accurately - why would anyone think of nutrient stability as being an issue at all ? If CO2 could never be measured accurately, who could really say that 40-50ppm of CO2 makes a big difference to some species vs 30ppm or 20ppm. Until I came along, I never saw anyone dispute the saying that "drop checker green = 30ppm of CO2."

Think about the time before PAR meters was a thing that at least a handful of hobbyists can afford. Light discussion was vague and largely speculative. I remember reading the walstad book, and she did some primitive test talking about light and growth with no measurement of PAR levels at all. [1][her book has many other terrible examples of how NOT to conduct experiments]. I think she demonstrates how going deep in the wrong direction yields no results - yet the baffling with bullshit is enough to win over generations of walstaders.

1


I have no answer for the

 

[CincyScaper]

Thanks, Dennis, for all the effort you put into this hobby and for being available to answer so many questions.

My one request is that you try a low-PAR (50–70 at the substrate) scape with similar plants and a similar style (Dutch-ish, farm, or APT style—whatever you want to call it—with multiple bushes).

I think your scapes are an inspiration to many, including mine. But one challenge for relatively new people in the hobby is understanding how demanding a PAR of 150–200 at the substrate can be for the system. Based on my n = 1 experience, I think you can still have a relatively nice scape (not as good as yours currently) with lower PAR.

I think this would set many people up for success.

 

[gjcarew]

I've noticed that there are maybe 1-2 people in the world that approach planted aquariums scientifically. Not that that's an indictment of everyone else, since this is just a hobby to most. But the vast majority of advice is anecdotal and pseudoscientific.

 

[Dennis Wong]

I've noticed that there are maybe 1-2 people in the world that approach planted aquariums scientifically. Not that that's an indictment of everyone else, since this is just a hobby to most. But the vast majority of advice is anecdotal and pseudoscientific.

I think people do try within the limits of what they have available, and they are also subjected to online trends and influences - the idea of bounded rationality I guess. Even over the years when I have disagreements with other hobbyists, the large majority of the time, I think that they mean well and are being sincere with respect to their own observations. Planted folks are generally good I would say. I can't remember when the last time I met really malicious folks in this circle. That is one big angle I'm thankful of.

Some close-ups while the floridas are being replanting in this tank

 

[JayP]

Man, I'm still in awe of that gorgeous Anubias White. Would love to get my hands on some, but I don't know that I trust any sellers in the U.S. that claim to have it. I may have asked this before, but have you had any issues of it wanting to go back to a green form over time? Do you find that it tends to be a little more resistant to algae? It may be my imagination, but it seems my Anubias Pinto is more resistant to it than petite that's growing right next to it. I also have an issue with some standard Anubias Petite over a year old in my farm tank, gradually getting larger and larger leaves.

What type of crypt is that in the first photo?

 

[NC AL]

A very impressive tank!

 

[Dennis Wong]

Man, I'm still in awe of that gorgeous Anubias White. Would love to get my hands on some, but I don't know that I trust any sellers in the U.S. that claim to have it. I may have asked this before, but have you had any issues of it wanting to go back to a green form over time? Do you find that it tends to be a little more resistant to algae? It may be my imagination, but it seems my Anubias Pinto is more resistant to it than petite that's growing right next to it. I also have an issue with some standard Anubias Petite over a year old in my farm tank, gradually getting larger and larger leaves.

What type of crypt is that in the first photo?

Its a crypt nurii I think ?
Hmm Anubias white petite is very stable, as long as its growing in decent light it remains white without issues. I stored mine in poor conditions for months in a neglected holding tank and lost probably 75% of the leaves, and had green growth, but once in good growth conditions the bare rhizomes throw out mostly white leaves again.

Anubias pinto is a tad more resilient, and a tad larger from what i observed. Cutting up the rhizome and lean conditions can cause both varietals to be smaller.

 

[CincyScaper]

Cutting up the rhizome

I saw that you had mentioned this on FB as well. Is this something that you routinely do ? is there a purpose for this other than just getting multiple plants ? TIA

 

[Dennis Wong]

I saw that you had mentioned this on FB as well. Is this something that you routinely do ? is there a purpose for this other than just getting multiple plants ? TIA

Yea its for getting more plants, and also controls the leaf sizing if you want smaller plants (same for Buceps). Sometimes one long rhizome only produces leaves at one end for example, whereas if you cut it into 3 parts, all 3 rhizomes will have growth heads. Many smaller rhizomes give a denser look rather than a few long ones with less growth heads. Smaller rhizomes are also easier to position I think.