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The Custom Micro Mix Thread

stopped dosing the Yara tenso cocktail and started dosing Seachem Flourish last week, I am very curious how will things improve


What a great way to investigate this!

Unfortunately, because the two ions that you seem to have been accidentally overdosing are Mn2+ and Cu2+, both cations, there's a good chance the high CEC "cation exchange capacity" of your Aqua soil will have caused it to bind them up.

This means it can release those micros back into your tank, even after you discontinue overdosing 😒

Have a look at this thread where another member @bradquade appears to have had a similar problem with toxicity, this time from excess Na+ sodium ions in his water supply



He has had much better success after replacing his substrate 😕 He has replaced with an inert soil, so the cost was much more reasonable than the new Aqua soil 👍
 
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Thanks a lot for the input Koan!
Thats very interesting, I would never know about something like CEC . I guess thats another negative of aquasoil, seems like the inert substrate is just better if you want to have maximum control over your water chemistry.
I will read bradquade"s journal for sure, the first thing that came to my mind is check the water quality report, unfortunately sodium levels are not listed there.

I think I will stick to large water changes for now and see how things progress, I have made an upgrade from 200L to 450L just 3 months ago so I am not feeling for a tank reset yet.
 
Hi guys,
I have read that pinwholes in older leaves of Hygrophila can be a sign of overdosing mikros. I am dosing 25 ppm potassium per week with 50% waterchange. So potassium can’t be the reason for pinwholes. I am also adding 0,4 ppm fe DTPA with unchelated Mikros. Does someone know or can you guess which of the mikros could cause this pinwholes?
 
Hi guys,
I have read that pinwholes in older leaves of Hygrophila can be a sign of overdosing mikros. I am dosing 25 ppm potassium per week with 50% waterchange. So potassium can’t be the reason for pinwholes. I am also adding 0,4 ppm fe DTPA with unchelated Mikros. Does someone know or can you guess which of the mikros could cause this pinwholes?
As far as my tank goes, zinc has caused me the most troubles. Years ago I saw immediate tox symptoms after routine Flourish use, dosing per the instructions. Flourish has a lot of zinc compared to other micros. More recently I kept zinc, boron and copper in individual bottles just to see if I could isolate the problems, and it seemed zinc doses never fixed anything, and the tank did better without it (with SafeTSorb substrate). I also transitioned to a low-tech "kill tank" this year (no CO2, no ferts, lower lighting) and some dormant AR Mini came back to life. Even with 100% RO water, I can never seem to dose the levels of zinc that other people manage to do.
 
As far as my tank goes, zinc has caused me the most troubles. Years ago I saw immediate tox symptoms after routine Flourish use, dosing per the instructions. Flourish has a lot of zinc compared to other micros. More recently I kept zinc, boron and copper in individual bottles just to see if I could isolate the problems, and it seemed zinc doses never fixed anything, and the tank did better without it (with SafeTSorb substrate). I also transitioned to a low-tech "kill tank" this year (no CO2, no ferts, lower lighting) and some dormant AR Mini came back to life. Even with 100% RO water, I can never seem to dose the levels of zinc that other people manage to do.
Thats very interesting. Zn is one that I found severely low in csmb, it was one of the big fixes when I first started making the custom micros. I experimented with really high levels also back in the day. It was fairly benign as far as overdosing. I dont doubt your results at all. Most of us have seen issues that seem to only apply to us, I sure have! So Im just sharing what Ive observed

The only problem I ran into with too much Zn was it started to affect the availability or absorption of Fe. The sweet spot wound up being to have Zn roughly equal to Mn and B

Not enough Zn causes very short lengths between the nodes of many stem plants, namely Rotalas and Ludwigias. The sets of leaves come out stacked right on top of each other. That is the primary symptom of not enough Zn in a high energy stem tank

Hi guys,
I have read that pinwholes in older leaves of Hygrophila can be a sign of overdosing mikros. I am dosing 25 ppm potassium per week with 50% waterchange. So potassium can’t be the reason for pinwholes. I am also adding 0,4 ppm fe DTPA with unchelated Mikros. Does someone know or can you guess which of the mikros could cause this pinwholes?

Cu and Mn are the ones most likely to inhibit K uptake, per Mulders chart. Zn and K do not interact with each other

Ive never experimented to find what causes this faux K deficiency in Hygros that youre talking about, but its real for sure. If I were to try and isolate which one does it Id start with those two
 
Thats very interesting. Zn is one that I found severely low in csmb, it was one of the big fixes when I first started making the custom micros. I experimented with really high levels also back in the day. It was fairly benign as far as overdosing. I dont doubt your results at all. Most of us have seen issues that seem to only apply to us, I sure have! So Im just sharing what Ive observed

The only problem I ran into with too much Zn was it started to affect the availability or absorption of Fe. The sweet spot wound up being to have Zn roughly equal to Mn and B
Yeah, I've seen that iron interaction, but never got to the point where I had the short internodes. Even when I went cold turkey on zinc and let the tank go to low tech before a move. I could always grow the snot out of Ludwigia Palustris and Repens. I'm curious if my tap was higher in zinc than reported, and perhaps STS substrate was always holding on to enough of it when I tried RO.

Years ago I got a water test from ICP analysis and Zn was 0.086, Mn was zero, but later on others also got a zero Mn reading from them, so I don't know if the Mn reading was reliable. Note in this thread I was having trouble growing hygro corymbosa, of all things, even with the high K.


Long story short - in my experience, I have the best luck with hygros when I dose EI macros without any extra K, and watch micros closely.
 
Hi all,
Hopefully this is the right thread. I've read somewhere that some people specifically choose to not use ascorbic acid (E300) (and potassium sorbate (E202)) but choose to use distilled vinegar instead. Up until now, I've used Tenso cocktail and I've always experienced some cloudiness within a few weeks in the DIY fert solution. I replace it every 5 weeks. Also, it creates a rather difficult to remove white layer on the bottom of my fert bottle. Today I'll receive my own salts to make my own micro ferts solution. So it feels like a natural moment to reevaluate my method of making diy micro fertz

I was wondering if people still use ascorbic acid or rather opt for distilled vinegar? (1)

And if read some threads where people talk about 'precipitation' in their micro fert solution. I wonder what is exactly meant by that? Does the layer on the bottom of my fert bottle that I describe above count as precipitation or are we talking about grains/clumps? (2)

These are the salt I will use:
  • Fe 13.2% EDTA
  • Manganese Sulfate Monohydrate (MnSO₄·H₂O)
  • Zinc Sulfate Heptahydrate (ZnSO₄∙7H₂O)
  • Boric Acid (H₃BO₃)
  • Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate (CuSO₄∙5H₂O)
  • Ammonium Molybdate Tetrahydrate ((NH₄)₆Mo₇O₂₄∙4H₂O)
  • Nickel Sulfate Hexahydrate (NiSO₄∙6H₂O)
 
Hi all,
Hopefully this is the right thread. I've read somewhere that some people specifically choose to not use ascorbic acid (E300) (and potassium sorbate (E202)) but choose to use distilled vinegar instead. Up until now, I've used Tenso cocktail and I've always experienced some cloudiness within a few weeks in the DIY fert solution. I replace it every 5 weeks. Also, it creates a rather difficult to remove white layer on the bottom of my fert bottle. Today I'll receive my own salts to make my own micro ferts solution. So it feels like a natural moment to reevaluate my method of making diy micro fertz

I was wondering if people still use ascorbic acid or rather opt for distilled vinegar? (1)

And if read some threads where people talk about 'precipitation' in their micro fert solution. I wonder what is exactly meant by that? Does the layer on the bottom of my fert bottle that I describe above count as precipitation or are we talking about grains/clumps? (2)

These are the salt I will use:
  • Fe 13.2% EDTA
  • Manganese Sulfate Monohydrate (MnSO₄·H₂O)
  • Zinc Sulfate Heptahydrate (ZnSO₄∙7H₂O)
  • Boric Acid (H₃BO₃)
  • Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate (CuSO₄∙5H₂O)
  • Ammonium Molybdate Tetrahydrate ((NH₄)₆Mo₇O₂₄∙4H₂O)
  • Nickel Sulfate Hexahydrate (NiSO₄∙6H₂O)
What does the layer on the bottom look like? Chalky? Fungus/mold? Powder?

I use just potassium sorbate in my fert mixes, live in a pretty warm climate, and get no cloudiness issues. I do use magnetic stirrers though.
 
It is a very thin and even layer in a solid matte white color. Definitely not like powder-like, chalky or moldy.
This is definitely some kind of precipitation happening, for sure. With micro mixes, this can occur if you're adding all the salts at once to the solution. That precipitation might affect the dosing, it might not, but you definitely need to use mixers or hand-mixing before dosing. The problem with auto dosers after stir bar mixing, is that the precipitate will likely still form and fall out in the tubing itself so you don't get properly homogenized dosing.
So you don't use any vinegar or ascorbic acid next to potassium sorbate? Does it still get acidic enough?
I've been mixing my own micros solution for about 2 years now and I never add ascorbic acid. Definitely don't need the KSorbate, these mixes are concentrated in things that are mold inhibitors on their own. You're not getting mold, you're getting precipitation!

These are the salt I will use:
  • Fe 13.2% EDTA
  • Manganese Sulfate Monohydrate (MnSO₄·H₂O)
  • Zinc Sulfate Heptahydrate (ZnSO₄∙7H₂O)
  • Boric Acid (H₃BO₃)
  • Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate (CuSO₄∙5H₂O)
  • Ammonium Molybdate Tetrahydrate ((NH₄)₆Mo₇O₂₄∙4H₂O)
  • Nickel Sulfate Hexahydrate (NiSO₄∙6H₂O)
When I first started making my own micro mixes, they got precipitation. I'd weigh all of the salts, dump them into a small tray, and add it all to my ~400mL beaker for mixing until dissolved. Then, top off to 500mL.

It would be a bit cloudy, get better, and look ok that day, but precipitate out over the next few hours/days.

Here's what fixed my precipitation issues: Mixing order!

First, you'll likely need to make secondary solutions for your Cu, Mo, and Ni. I'd find some airtight containers, and make secondary solutions of these salts first. Normally I don't promote AI use, but this is a use case where it makes sense. It'll help you out. I like to use 250mL media glass bottles for three separate Cu, Mo, and Ni solutions that'll last me a lifetime. Get a 1mL syringe, 5mL syringe, or 10mL syringe for dosing and adding these to your main mix when it's time.

Once your secondary solutions are made, here's the proper mixing order (I have this memorized now lol):
  1. Fe EDTA (I recommend DTPA 11% over EDTA, but use it if it's what you have). Mix until fully dissolved.
  2. Boric Acid, mix until dissolved
  3. MnSO4, mix until dissolved
  4. ZnSO4, mix until dissolved
  5. Add Cu stock
  6. Add Ni stock
  7. Add Mo stock
  8. Mix well, top off to your desired volume. Make sure you're always using RO water or distilled water, not tap.
I do this all with actual graduated cylinders, with a stir bar in the bottom, and RO water heated to ~120F.

Once you make those secondary solutions, you'll only be removing a few syringes'worth (if that) each time you make your micros, so it's totally worth it. We make secondary solutions because none of us have scales that will accurately weight 0.00067g of something...

I follow @Burr740's micro recipe, where for every 0.01ppm Fe added, it also adds about:

Mn - 0.0017 ppm
Zn - 0.0017 ppm
B - 0.0015 ppm
Cu - 0.00014 ppm
Mo - 0.00007 ppm
Ni - 0.00001 ppm


I start with my DTPA 11%, then boric acid, then Mn, Zn, then my Cu/Mo/Ni secondary solutions.

Previously when I added all powders together, it would preciptate -- over and over and over again.

Including a mixing order finally gave me a totally clear micros solution. No acid (besides boric acid), no KSorbate!


Let me know if you have any questions!
 
Wauw, thank you for the extensive reply and tips. This will definitely save me some trouble later on it the proces!
Will try the add-mix-add-mix approach when I make my next batch.

Do you aim for a certain pH for your mixed micro fert solution?

And never knew you should heat the RO water to 120F. Why is that exactly?

Have the Burr mix noted, seen all the good results here so definitely excited
 
Do you aim for a certain pH for your mixed micro fert solution?
Nope! I stopped adding any acid besides the H3BO3, and it's been totally fine (from what I can tell!). No precipitation at all. I also use pure RO water, so the combination of that and the H3BO3 probably keeps it super soft and acidic!
And never knew you should heat the RO water to 120F. Why is that exactly?
You don't have to, it just helps to dissolve things faster. I'm super impatient, you see :) Even with a magnetic stir bar and stir plate, it still doesn't dissolve quick enough for me. I want to make my micros mix in 30 minutes or less, and have it last for a few months if possible!

Have the Burr mix noted, seen all the good results here so definitely excited
He knows what he's doing!
 
I'm not sure of the value of this post, but I want to add that I mix my own also.
I mix to Burr's concentrations except that I don't add Ni, and I use a different Fe concentration.
I use Rocco's instructions as far as order and I also don't add ascorbic acid or K Sorbate.
My tank has been doing great. So I'll +1 the Burr/Rocco method.

DSC09718_400x.webp
 
It's looking great Ben! What's your dosing amount and WC % each week?
Weekly: 50-70% wc and dose 7.5ppm NO3 and 8ppm PO4, 4ml Trace. (Yes that much PO4), Ca, Mg, and K
Daily Macros: NO3 3ppm, PO 1.5ppm, K 2.5ppm (The K amount is how much is already present from the KNO3 and KH2PO4)
Daily Micros: 2ml
My NO3 has been accumulating a lot lately. I want to adjust my dosing down, but that's a lot of effort when things are fine with GDA as the only visible algae.
My trace is Burr formula except mine gives 0.086ppm Fe per 2ml
My intention is a 50% water change, but I usually screw it up because I get distracted trimming and cleaning the glass.
 

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