Journal Fishstery's Garden/Nature style hybrid

[Fishstery]

I think the layout looks great, it is quite unique and I don’t think I have seen an island scape like this before. My thought would be to let it grow out and see.

Not sure what your GH is, but Dennis reported it to need higher GH. If these are Rotala ramisor florida, you can get some great stems from @Burr740 .

From the hair algae perspective, I think several people have different opinions but probably would choose a strategy and stick to it. Personally I feel lowered light intensity and duration helps, my Rotala Florida seems to be doing ok with a PAR of 50. I would check parameters like ammonia and ensure you are keeping up with water changes.

Thank you! It's definitely changed form a lot from my initial vision, it's hard not to get collectoritis when doing garden(ish) styles. My gH is between 6-7, so no issues there. My plants came from Joe actually, right now he has some lopped young plants for sale, but the larger trimmings I got which is what I have now, didn't enjoy the trip from AL to PA and melted almost entirely. This is what I had managed to recover, so I'm trying to find larger, rooted plants to add in hopes they transition to my tank better.

As for the algae, I'm staying course right now in hopes that keeping the Phosphate balanced again will help starve it out. I still have the cycle at only 6 hours, but I think the indirect light from my back door is contributing to the issue. I have a set of blinds coming this week to cover it up and hopefully that will further stop it from spreading while the livestock keep it mowed down. If it spreads any more I'm going to bump the light intensity down in 5% increments one week at a time. I'm not privy to algaecides, so that's last ditch effort to curb it off and start over. Ammonia isn't an issue, it's even cycled since the end of January and it didn't start until my Phosphate bottomed out when I ran out of ferts and shipping took forever. I do weekly 50% water changes minimum, sometimes two 25% instead, and use a pipette to lightly blow detrius out of the substrate while vaccing, so the substrate is clean. Almost daily I have my hands in the tank removing any old or damaged leaves.

I can't really identify what both types are, the one kind has the color of cyano but is velvet-like in texture, and the other is some kind of filamentous algae that grows in single, short stems.

 

[Fishstery]

Day 24:
I'm starting to notice more algae. The filamentous algae is moving to more leaves and I'm starting to see some GSA on old leaves and substrate, but very minimal. There's also a very tiny bit of staghorn on a Ramosior stump that seems to be past the point of recovery. I retested Nitrate and Phosphate, still 10:1 ppm so at this point it seems to be a possible light and/or co2 issue. I ticked up the co2 the tiniest bit to account for the new addition in plant mass, and turned the light intensity down 5%.

At this point I'm reevaluating my water source as I'm getting tired of trying to tightrope around my taps 5ppm of Nitrate and 1ppm of Phosphate. Looking ahead I also don't want to deal with the issues that will arise when my soil stops buffering, so I'm biting the bullet and finally dusting off my 5 stage RO unit I bought in 2019 and will be installing it this weekend.

I'm also going to add some Amano shrimp to help knock out this hair algae, I can only hope they don't demolish my AR Mini like they did in my first Garden Style. I also finally decided on the last bit of fish to add: 15 Platinum Rummynose Tetras. I think their colors will compliment my pencilfish wonderfully and I will enjoy their tight schooling behavior. I've seen videos of them circling large pieces of driftwood like a cyclone, I'd be so entranced if they do that in my tank given the layout. The Pencils rarely ever shoal entirely which makes the scape feel somewhat chaotic, and I think the Pencils will add that serenity factor it's missing.

One thing I do need to consult the group on, is transitioning over to RO. Does anyone have an opinion on if I should do my regular 50% WC this week with RO, or just drain the tank almost all the way down and refill with RO? With the buffering of my soil, the remineralized RO will be near identical to where the tank sits now, but from a nutrient standpoint, I'm unsure on how to go about this without causing even more algae issues. I want to start on APT 3 or APT EI once I get off the tap water.

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

One thing I do need to consult the group on, is transitioning over to RO. Does anyone have an opinion on if I should do my regular 50% WC this week with RO, or just drain the tank almost all the way down and refill with RO? With the buffering of my soil, the remineralized RO will be near identical to where the tank sits now, but from a nutrient standpoint, I'm unsure on how to go about this without causing even more algae issues. I want to start on APT 3 or APT EI once I get off the tap water.

As long as you remineralize properly, you can do a 50% change with RO Water.

Since you have aquasoil, your KH is probably pretty low or nonexistent. That's good, because RO has zero KH and zero GH, but big swings in KH are the more dangerous for livestock of the two.

So, as long as you add Ca and Mg to proper levels for the incoming RO water, you'd be fine to start this week with a 50% water change!

 

[Fishstery]

As long as you remineralize properly, you can do a 50% change with RO Water.

Since you have aquasoil, your KH is probably pretty low or nonexistent. That's good, because RO has zero KH and zero GH, but big swings in KH are the more dangerous for livestock of the two.

So, as long as you add Ca and Mg to proper levels for the incoming RO water, you'd be fine to start this week with a 50% water change!

Thank you for the response and also the links on some of your RO WC equipment! I got the pump you use coming, since I need to get the water from my basement to upstairs.

Fingers crossed this helps balance the parameters better while I curb the algae before it gets out of control. I know there is something funky in my tap, despite the parameters not being too bad. Every time I've gotten lazy and skipped a water change here and there in my other tanks I get a cyano outbreak. I've even had the weird red freshwater cyano variant

 

[Fishstery]

Day 25:

Algae, algae, algae. I dialed up the co2 today and came home to some tufts of staghorn growing bigger. I'm assuming perhaps it was time to up the co2 since I added a good bit of plant mass? Either that or I have some drifting issues with my needle valve on the regulator, which is a proper fzone dual stage. I'm trying not to have my resolve tested here, I guess I'm just a tad disappointed as I was hoping this tank would be easier to balance than my last high energy setup as that was a nano.

Hair Algae is still going, and gsa still there. The plants look great, except for my AR mini which is taking turns melting off leaves randomly, but upper portions are all very healthy and happy.

Here's my current plan of action: add some amanos to help eat the algae down while I try and stabilize the parameters. Friday I'm going to get my RODI unit set up, and Saturday will be my first RO WC, and switch to APT 3. I'm going to keep the lights a bit dimmer at 45%, photoperiod at 6 hours, and when I'm home Saturday, up the co2 a bit more. Sunday I will do another pH drop test. I also put a curtain on the window nearest to the tank just before making this update.

After 2 weeks I will reevaluate. If things still aren't heading in a better direction, I'll be getting a co2 reactor. Algaecide is absolute last ditch effort for me.

Does anyone have any insight for me as to what they think the issue is, and what your thoughts are on my plan of attack? Anything else I am missing, or should try?

 

[Koan]

Either that or I have some drifting issues with my needle valve on the regulator, which is a proper fzone

Fzone needle valves have a bad reputation maybe worth taking some CO2 test measurements

 

[Fishstery]

Fzone needle valves have a bad reputation maybe worth taking some CO2 test measurements

Problem is, I can never get my hanna test to turn pink until after the co2 has been off for a few hours. I find it hard to believe I'm already injecting over 50ppm, but it's possible considering my tank has a more shallow footprint with strong surface agitation, and heavy feeders like cabomba and the Taiwan lilies. I'm going to retest for co2 leaks and try a pH drop test after switching over to RO. What makes it hard is my schedule doesn't allow me to be home while the co2 is on during the week, so I'm left with the weekend only for tinkering.

 

[JayP]

Fzone needle valves have a bad reputation maybe worth taking some CO2 test measurements

I can vouch for that!

 

[Fishstery]

I can vouch for that!

What working pressure did you run yours at? I'm seeing 30-40 psi online but conflicting info on 50-60psi for a 5lb tank. I had it running at 40psi but the needle valve fully open and it wasn't putting out enough pressure. I have it at 55psi and I'm wondering if the amount of pressure is causing the drift.

 

[JayP]

I'm not running either of my Fzones right now, as both have issues. When they were running, I did have to turn the pressure up to at least 45. Also keep in mind, Fzone has a built-in check valve on the bubble counter and it's possible your inline diffuser also has a built-in check valve. If you then added another inline check valve, it will require additional pressure to push CO2. Confirm how many check valves you have and if 3, pull at least one out and try turning down the pressure.

 

[Koan]

retest for co2 leaks

Trying to find CO2 leaks used to drive me absolutely bananas this step-by-step walkthrough by @Bettatail really helped me

Post in thread 'Co2 tank refill question'

Oct 24, 2025

In order to identify where the leak is coming from, spray soapy water on each junction and look carefully for bubbles.

Here is @Bettatail's step by step by step process of leak testing any CO2 regulator system :

Complete Leak Check, CO2 pressurized system

CO2 is toxic in higher concentrations: 1% (10,000 ppm) will make some people feel drowsy.[7] Concentrations of 7% to 10% cause dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour ---make sure your house ventilation is good, or your system is...

www.plantedtank.net

Just to clarify, you will need to make sure a crushable fiber or nylon washer is always installed between the regulator stem and the port on the tank.



Each time you release the regulator, you'll need to put in a new washer, and when you tighten the stem bolt on the...

• Koan

• 

Check it out if you don't already have a routine

 

[CincyScaper]

My 2 cents....

Fzone dual stage regulator

• So i run a Fzone in-line Co2 diffuser with the Fzone dual stage regulator on my ~25 gallon tank - and my pressure is around 45 psi.
• I get 30-40 ppm of Co2 via the Hanna co2 kit, when i do pH drop test that goes from a completely degassed sample of 7.1 to 5.8
• I have been using this for about 6-8 months now without any issue but i just have this 1 setup.

Hanna Co2 kit

• It also comes with a holder to check for levels upto 100 ppm
• I think doing a combo of Hanna and pH drop would be nice.

Algae control

• I think your plan sounds great.
• APT 3 sounds great, i would just stick with 1 routine for the foreseeable future and not make too much changes. As Dennis always mentions we often focus too much on fertilizer when there are so many variables.
• 1 additional thought to have in this stage is to forego the very slow growers such as rotala florida and try to get the tank stable with fast growers such as Rotala blood red. They also do better with lower PAR. - Looks like your plants might be doing well but just in case they melt.
• Keep checking ammonia
• Highly recommend the lower lighting, could use the Photone app for the PAR.

 

[Fishstery]

My 2 cents....

Fzone dual stage regulator

• So i run a Fzone in-line Co2 diffuser with the Fzone dual stage regulator on my ~25 gallon tank - and my pressure is around 45 psi.
• I get 30-40 ppm of Co2 via the Hanna co2 kit, when i do pH drop test that goes from a completely degassed sample of 7.1 to 5.8
• I have been using this for about 6-8 months now without any issue but i just have this 1 setup.

Hanna Co2 kit

• It also comes with a holder to check for levels upto 100 ppm
• I think doing a combo of Hanna and pH drop would be nice.

Algae control

• I think your plan sounds great.
• APT 3 sounds great, i would just stick with 1 routine for the foreseeable future and not make too much changes. As Dennis always mentions we often focus too much on fertilizer when there are so many variables.
• 1 additional thought to have in this stage is to forego the very slow growers such as rotala florida and try to get the tank stable with fast growers such as Rotala blood red. They also do better with lower PAR. - Looks like your plants might be doing well but just in case they melt.
• Keep checking ammonia
• Highly recommend the lower lighting, could use the Photone app for the PAR.

So I got frustrated and just threw more money at the problem, ha. I have a GLA dual stage regulator and their co2 reactor on order. I also took the opportunity to add some of their new AIO liquid fert in the order, I'm unsure as to which I will be switching to as I've used APT for years and do like the lean NO3 since I keep a good bit of fish.

I'll retire the FZone regulator for my buce farm project I'm working on.

As for the plants, I have a ton of fast growers in there. Various Rotala cultivars including Blood Red SG, Cabomba Furcata, Nymphoides Taiwan to name a few. They are all happy as can be with no algae. The algae is attacking my AR Mini and Bacopa, which is to be expected.

The lighting was tested at various settings and documented with a PAR meter, as I always do when buying new lights. I keep the data points on hand should I run into issues (exhibit A, B, and C). At 50% I was averaging about 150 umols at the substrate. When the hair algae kicked up I took it down to 45% which averages about 120 umols. I just took it down to 40% which is 100umols average. If switching to RO, getting a more stable co2 injection method, and adjusting off of a more lean dosing method doesn't mitigate the issue, lighting will be dropped down to 30% and 75 umols, but I don't forsee that happening.

Hoping to get the rest on track and will slowly work my way back up to 50% as I start dosing a bit heavier on ferts. I have high hopes for the addition of Amanos, they have never let me down in the past. I may have to move them to a different tank after they knock out most of the algae though, as I've had them decimate buce and AR in the past, even with supplemental feeding. They really have a bloodthirst for AR in particular and can be more than happy to eat even healthy ones IME, which is why I started with Neos first.

 

[Fishstery]

Also to add: here's a good closeup of what I have going on, variety-wise. Staghorn is limited to very small tufts, and I only saw areas in the tank currently. You can see the hair algae on the older AR leaves, next to the new leaves that are clean.

And then there's whatever the hell is on my driftwood. Seems like super concentrated GDA perhaps?

 

[Dennis Wong]

Sorry I just skimmed through this journal.
TBH, I think the tank is going through quite normal startup phases.

I find the initial planting far too sparse to have a smooth start, especially when a lot of the area is tiny foreground stuff. The tank could have started smoothly if it was ran like an Iwagumi (with very low PAR for example). The tank has gone through the various stages of adaptation and algae I would have expected given the layout and starting conditions. (I don't think having super precise CO2/nutrients would have altered this outcome at all) I think with time and maturity the algae issues would fade, but it will probably take a few more weeks. By the latest pics I would still consider it a very sparsely planted aquarium. Overall stability will set in as the plants gain mass.

On CO2 - if your Rotala florida grows, you have enough for every other plant you are currently growing. I don't think there is a need for over-optimization as all the other species are not particularly CO2 demanding. If you have 15ppm or 40ppm they will largely grow the same. Having higher CO2 does boost growth rates which can allow stuff to "out grow" problems, but it isn't a super critical factor like if you manage to have a stable 50ppm that all the issues present will resolve suddenly. The high saturation rate target in this tank mainly affects Rotala florida.

 

[Fishstery]

Sorry I just skimmed through this journal.
TBH, I think the tank is going through quite normal startup phases.

I find the initial planting far too sparse to have a smooth start, especially when a lot of the area is tiny foreground stuff. The tank could have started smoothly if it was ran like an Iwagumi (with very low PAR for example). The tank has gone through the various stages of adaptation and algae I would have expected given the layout and starting conditions. (I don't think having super precise CO2/nutrients would have altered this outcome at all) I think with time and maturity the algae issues would fade, but it will probably take a few more weeks. By the latest pics I would still consider it a very sparsely planted aquarium. Overall stability will set in as the plants gain mass.

On CO2 - if your Rotala florida grows, you have enough for every other plant you are currently growing. I don't think there is a need for over-optimization as all the other species are not particularly CO2 demanding. If you have 15ppm or 40ppm they will largely grow the same. Having higher CO2 does boost growth rates which can allow stuff to "out grow" problems, but it isn't a super critical factor like if you manage to have a stable 50ppm that all the issues present will resolve suddenly. The high saturation rate target in this tank mainly affects Rotala florida.

Dennis, thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I'm trying not to fangirl, but I've followed you for many years and I'm elated to get to interact with you here.

I'm really trying my best to focus less on what I'm putting in the tank as far as co2 and ferts go, and more on just keeping things stable, as well as pruning off any decaying leaves. I do all my water changes the 2 hr way to keep the substrate clean as well.

I took the staghorn showing up as a big red flag that my needle valve on my regulator is drifting, and upon closer inspection, the bubble count is inconsistent as well as slowly leaking out co2 at night. I went ahead and bought a much better regulator to mitigate the issue.

I'm also finding my tap water frustrating, so I figured switching to RO water would be the easiest way to get a handle on consistency with the water parameters.

This weekend I'm going to switch the tank over to RO, remineralize with APT Sky, and switch off APT 1 and move to APT 3. When the tank is near drained I had the idea to dip a paintbrush in APT fix and brush it on the driftwood. Once that is all done, I'm going to get the co2 dialed back in to 40ppm and lower the lighting to the 75-100umol area.

If you happen to find the time, please do let me know what you think of my plan.

 

[Dennis Wong]

I think your plan sound good so far. I think you can chill a little - once the plant mass increases, and since you have solved your CO2 stabilization issue the various issues should fade with time. Some things to consider for the longer horizon - managing a ton of fast growing stems can be tiring in the long run. Java ferns and other grassy-like species (cyperus helferi?) actually match the wood aesthetic very well, you could consider using some of these species to reduce stem plant usage. Crypts and other rosettes also do well in the midground as they are shade tolerant (so can be planted beside stems) and less maintenance heavy. The java ferns can be planted around the wood if you prefer to leave the wood itself unplanted. The wood offers tremendous space for using mosses, bucephalandra etc though.

 

[Fishstery]

I think your plan sound good so far. I think you can chill a little - once the plant mass increases, and since you have solved your CO2 stabilization issue the various issues should fade with time. Some things to consider for the longer horizon - managing a ton of fast growing stems can be tiring in the long run. Java ferns and other grassy-like species (cyperus helferi?) actually match the wood aesthetic very well, you could consider using some of these species to reduce stem plant usage. Crypts and other rosettes also do well in the midground as they are shade tolerant (so can be planted beside stems) and less maintenance heavy. The java ferns can be planted around the wood if you prefer to leave the wood itself unplanted. The wood offers tremendous space for using mosses, bucephalandra etc

I had considered restarting the tank as a true naturescape, I do think it would be more agreeable to manage with my schedule . Adding a second, smaller piece of wood to the opposite side of the tank and going back in with black soil, green plants, and dim lighting would make for a very moody and soft vibe that I think would be just as breathtaking as a tank painted rainbow with plants.

 

[Dennis Wong]

I had considered restarting the tank as a true naturescape, I do think it would be more agreeable to manage with my schedule . Adding a second, smaller piece of wood to the opposite side of the tank and going back in with black soil, green plants, and dim lighting would make for a very moody and soft vibe that I think would be just as breathtaking as a tank painted rainbow with plants.

You have a very large tank ! haa I think you can have a bit of both. You can also switch between the styles depending on your time schedule - use more stems when you have more time for trimming and replanting, use more ferns when you are busy with life. ~ I think the great thing about planted aquariums is that things are changed easily

 

[Fishstery]

You have a very large tank ! haa I think you can have a bit of both. You can also switch between the styles depending on your time schedule - use more stems when you have more time for trimming and replanting, use more ferns when you are busy with life. ~ I think the great thing about planted aquariums is that things are changed easily

I was considering adding some elaine triandra to the carpet to get the soil covered, since the hairgrass is taking a very long time to fill in, as expected.

I saw that you noted it has a rather shallow root system but spreads quickly. Do you think a large carpet of it may be problematic as far as floating when it becomes dense? I had that issue with Utricularia and Micranthemum if I wasn't incredibly diligent with thinning it out, which is why I chose hair grass this time.