Fame and Glory: Art, GreggZ, Dennis and Dutch Garden Aquascaping!

[Koan]

Not to be outdone, and following @BenB in the July issue of The Aquatic gardener by a mere three pages our own @Art , @GreggZ and the ever famous @Dennis Wong bring further credit to us here at Scapecrunch.com

Featured in an interview by (member?) Adam R, discussing "Dutch Impressionism" and the Dutch Garden Aquascape Style


Excerpted here:

 

[GreggZ]

Hey @Koan this triggered my memory. I was contacted out of the blue by Adam back in July of last year asking permission to use a picture of my tank in an AGA article. Haven't thought about it since.

Always nice to be mentioned but more important is promoting Scapecrunch and this style of underwater gardening. Glad to see it getting some recognition like this.

And on a side note how I got in there with that group of heavy hitters I will never know!! Those are some of my idols there.

 

[Koan]

how I got in there with that group of heavy hitters I will never know

​

Just to be clear: on the day I personally produce a tank anything like that "pointillist painting" above.. you may hear later that I had died happy

​

 

[JayP]

I had to look up "Pointillistic" used in reference to Gregg's tank.

These, of course, are all incredibly beautiful aquariums regardless of "rules".

My non-aquascaping friend's get googly eyed over my scapes and heap praise on me. I humbly accept their praise while simultaneously explaining my scapes are bush league compared to the works of the masters in this hobby.

 

[BenB]

I don't have my copy of the journal yet. I look forward to reading this. I've complained that there isn't a competition category in the AGA for "Dutch Inspired" aquascapes. I still have a 2 year old debate with @Burr740 to reply to.

While I'm at it, the term "Dutch Inspired" and "Dutch Impressionist" are amazing terms for these. I've never seem them labeled this way before. So much better than "Garden Style."

Congrats to everyone cited in the article. It looks really good. Scape Crunch already had a competition for these type scapes. I think we could own the name "Dutch Inspired" and help develop some judging guidelines. I get it. I struggle to define how they should be judged as well, but they are a thing and deserve a place. We could start with the Scape Crunch contest rules and go from there.

Ugh... I haven't had any sleep. Sorry if this is a big rough.

 

[Burr740]

Besides hardscape, species limit is the main thing that defines Dutch and not Dutch

Its not just an arbitrary rule. Its purpose is to force the use of big groups instead of lots of small ones. Big groups create a stronger visual impression, but most importantly it allows the group to become a certain shape in a certain color/texture. These "shapes of color" are the building blocks of a plant-only aquscape. Thats the medium youre working with, shapes of color. The shapes are arranged to create depth and contrast, etc, and the overall finished product

Marian's tank wasnt over the limit very much. The height thing Marco mentioned, plus having so many reds beside reds, the lack of height contrast between adjacent groups, all these combined to make it 'not Dutch'. Its still a freakin amazing display of skills and beauty, it just doesnt belong in the Dutch group. Like taking the the best poodle in the world to a German Sheppard show. No matter how good it is it simply wouldnt belong

I do wish there was a category for non-Dutch plant-only tanks. But there has to be some criteria in place, not only to qualify but to judge one tank against another one. When you start naming things like contrast and depth pretty soon youre back at Dutch rules. Plus bigger groups would almost always "score" better than having 2-3 stems of 100 species, no matter how well its arranged

Thats the wall I hit when trying to imagine what the criteria would be and what would score higher than another. It reads same as Dutch criteria just without the species limit

As for the name, imo it shouldnt take more than one word to cover it, two at the max. So far "garden" style is as good as anything. Makes about as much sense as calling all these fabulous diaramas "nature style"

 

[deepgreen]

Seeing these wonderful tanks that do not have a category in these contests is sad. Once AGA adopted the Dutch rules, many beautiful planted tanks suddenly no longer appeared because they do not meet the strict Dutch rules. I was always looking forward to see this great variation.

I understand the importance to have a rubric with criteria to judge objectively. Why not try to come up with criteria that are more flexible than Dutch rules that allow to include more planted tanks?

What would be criteria that appear too strict and how can they be changed and still have meaning?

The number of species is one of these criteria. However, we can still see if a tank appears overcrowded or not. For example, you could potentially have a tank with small-leaved plants only, and the tank would not necessarily seem overcrowded even though it does not meet the species number/length criteria. I would be a matter of scale. Having a less strict count rule might also avoid having most plant groups occupying a similar amount of space. Smaller groups in between would increase the count, but may create more variation.

Another rule that I find limiting is the planted edges. I sometimes feel that without these walls a tank would have greater impression of depth. In the worst case, the moss walls give me the impression of a “boxed-in” tank simply to meet the rules. Weakening this rule would give more options.

Overall, the most important criteria is the harmonic interplay of the plants, the position, color, leaves, height … This is probably the most difficult to assess in a rubric. Nevertheless, it seems that there is a concept what looks harmonic and what is less harmonic. One could come up with more specific rules.

These are just a few ideas of how a broader perspective on the rules could potentially allow to include many beautiful tanks. This is all from the perspective of a spectator. The experts might have a different opinion.

Nevertheless, why not have a discussion in the community how such rules could look like? Is this forum not one of the best places to discuss this?

 

[Kwyet]

Another consideration is the amount of non-green colors, and not putting colors next to each other. I think that’s a big reason that a lot of people don’t do true Dutch tanks. They want lots of color in their tanks. Garden style tanks also often have colors and lines blending into each other, instead the strict demarcations in Dutch tanks.

 

[Burr740]

Seeing these wonderful tanks that do not have a category in these contests is sad. Once AGA adopted the Dutch rules, many beautiful planted tanks suddenly no longer appeared because they do not meet the strict Dutch rules. I was always looking forward to see this great variation.

Im a little confused by this part. The contest expanded over the years by adding new, separate categories for Dutch (2014) and also Biotope and Wabi-Kusa. These styles previously had no place in the original and broad Nature style category, no shot at winning at least. Nothing all of a sudden "no longer appeared". Thats the part I dont understand what you mean. The original Nature Style category has remained the same and is still exponentially bigger than the sub categories

You make good points I totally agree with in the rest of your post

 

[Koan]

As for the name, imo it shouldnt take more than one word to cover it, two at the max

Dutch Freestyle ?
Para-dutch?

Still leaves coming up with criteria to judge against Like ice dancing that came after figure skating..

It can be done do we really,
practically need another category ? Are we strapped enough for entries already?

 

[Kwyet]

Well, I think it’s sad that some people have these awesome tanks, but no category in which they can participate with any chance of success. It seems to that if Nature Style can be judged, then surely Garden Style/Dutch Inspired can be judged.

 

[JayP]

Nevertheless, why not have a discussion in the community how such rules could look like? Is this forum not one of the best places to discuss this?

It seems there's already a good connection between Scapecrunch and AGA. Collaboration time!

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

True Dutch vs Dutch Freestyle (Garden Style)??

 

[JayP]

Dutch Freestyle

Winner, winner. Chicken dinner!

 

[deepgreen]

Im a little confused by this part. The contest expanded over the years by adding new, separate categories for Dutch (2014) and also Biotope and Wabi-Kusa. These styles previously had no place in the original and broad Nature style category, no shot at winning at least. Nothing all of a sudden "no longer appeared". Thats the part I dont understand what you mean. The original Nature Style category has remained the same and is still exponentially bigger than the sub categories

You make good points I totally agree with in the rest of your post

It is definitely confusing, because it reflects my bad memory which even confuses me. It was a long time ago and the sequence was more like that the “Dutch-like” tanks slowly disappeared and then AGA created the new Dutch category which brought some of these tanks back.

Dutch Freestyle would be a great name.

 

[Gwad]

Why does AGA call their general diorama tank competition "Aquatic Garden?" I guess that is the name of fhe association but its too bad because Aquatic Garden seems like a great category name for all the Dutch-Adjacent tanks that we are describing here.

Also, the Dutch contest seems to only ever get like 10-20 entries at most...adding another competition category might reduce the field even more. It's almost like you need a plants-only garden category that would judge all the Dutch and Dutch-adjacent tanks together. And then there would be a subcategory for the best "True Dutch" tanks that follow the strict rules.

I guess this all goes back to how the point criteria become murky for Dutch-Adjacent tanks, though, since they'd need a new rubric.

 

[Burr740]

Why does AGA call their general diorama tank competition "Aquatic Garden?" I guess that is the name of fhe association but its too bad because Aquatic Garden seems like a great category name for all the Dutch-Adjacent tanks that we are describing here.

Absolutely! Dutch tanks or all-plant Dutch Gardens are the REAL "aquatic gardening". Not piles of wood and rocks with epiphytes and moss and maybe a stem group or two

Im a new judge on the scene so Im not really trying to buck the system. But I agree 100%. Im glad somebody said it, lol

Still, to make a new category requires criteria in place, both to qualify and to score tanks against each other. It has to be more to it than repeating Dutch rules minus the species limit, and as @Kwyet mentioned killing the red next to red deduction. Which I dont necessarily agree with but it would be one more definable difference

 

[JayP]

Not piles of wood and rocks with epiphytes and moss

I'll have you know, it takes a lot of time and work to pile that wood and those rocks in just the right way.

 

[Kwyet]

Actually, I really admire the Nature Style tanks and all of the work that goes into them. I agree though that “Aquatic Garden” should be the name for the Dutch and Garden Style tanks. My problem with the competition Nature tanks is that they aren’t built to last. A lot of them are just “smoke and mirrors.” I think all of the categories should have potential longevity as a criterion.

 

[JayP]

And it can't be a true garden without a garden gnome...in this case, a garden gnome in scuba gear.